00:00:00 --- log: started haskell/06.08.22 00:00:36 @vixen Please empty your pockets before going through the metal detector. 00:00:36 i like that type of music too 00:00:47 Not that kind you dufus 00:13:34 Does anyone have any good solutions that they use for organizing pdfs/papers? I've downloaded a ton, and my method of dumping them in a vague directory hierarchy is becoming a bit unwieldy. 00:14:24 dolio, www.citeulike.org 00:14:39 dolio: hm not really, same problem here. I try to change the pdf file names into the title of the papers. maybe I should look into beagle 00:15:48 pejo: Hmm, interesting. Thanks. 00:16:03 dolio, or just a big pile on your desk. :-) 00:16:29 Heh. 00:24:21 --- join: Cheery (n=Cheery@a81-197-19-23.elisa-laajakaista.fi) joined #haskell 00:26:12 --- join: johnnowak (n=johnnowa@207-38-204-65.c3-0.wsd-ubr2.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com) joined #haskell 00:28:23 --- join: iblechbot (n=iblechbo@62.216.198.47) joined #haskell 00:28:53 dons: i'm having some local lambdabot problems 00:29:11 yeah? 00:29:30 dons: it just prints "Initialising plugins ......." and then exits with exitcode 1 00:29:41 remove State/seen 00:29:44 and try again 00:30:07 yay, it works 00:30:10 --- quit: johnnowak (Client Quit) 00:30:11 :) 00:30:15 --- join: johnnowak (n=johnnowa@207-38-204-65.c3-0.wsd-ubr2.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com) joined #haskell 00:30:16 how do i turn of a module? 00:30:22 (or remove it) 00:30:31 remove it from the list in Modules.hs and recompile 00:30:55 that was easy... 00:32:08 and it works :) 00:32:14 @karma+ dons 00:32:14 dons's karma raised to 51. 00:32:41 Yikes, that's a lot of karma. 00:32:49 sure is 00:32:51 ?karma-all 00:32:51 dons 51 00:32:52 shapr 21 00:32:52 xerox 21 00:32:52 lambdabot 20 00:32:52 Lemmih 19 00:32:52 You're coming back as something really awesome. 00:32:53 [212 @more lines] 00:32:59 :S 00:33:01 @more 00:33:01 dcoutts 18 00:33:02 int-e 14 00:33:02 Cale 12 00:33:02 musasabi 12 00:33:03 SamB 10 00:33:05 [207 @more lines] 00:33:06 @karma 00:33:10 You have a karma of 1 00:33:13 @karma 00:33:13 You have a karma of 3 00:33:13 @karma 00:33:14 You have a karma of 0 00:33:15 @karma 00:33:16 You have a karma of 0 00:33:18 :-( 00:33:29 @karma+ sieni 00:33:29 sieni's karma raised to 1. 00:33:30 woohoo, positive karma :) 00:33:33 Happy now? 00:33:39 ^_^ 00:34:02 --- join: roconnor (n=roconnor@g33218.upc-g.chello.nl) joined #haskell 00:34:04 --- quit: noclouds (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 00:34:16 --- quit: Evi1M4chine (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 00:34:25 --- join: Evi1M4chine (n=Miranda@dsl50-223.pool.bitel.net) joined #haskell 00:34:56 --- join: noclouds (n=mhfan@60.166.39.122) joined #haskell 00:36:06 --- join: slipstream-- (n=slipstre@ppp85-140-76-70.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) joined #haskell 00:41:03 --- quit: slipstream (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 00:41:47 --- join: kep (n=const@nat-175-12.yapic.net) joined #haskell 00:41:47 --- quit: Pseudonym ("using sirc version 2.211+ssfe") 00:44:11 --- quit: boliver (Remote closed the connection) 00:45:52 --- quit: kep (Client Quit) 00:46:50 --- join: SSelva (n=ssaranga@c-24-6-134-152.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #haskell 00:49:36 --- quit: JohnMeacham (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 00:50:06 --- join: tibbe (i=tibbe@cupcake.dreamhost.com) joined #haskell 00:52:06 --- quit: Evi1M4chine (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 00:52:14 --- join: Evi1M4chine (n=Miranda@dsl50-223.pool.bitel.net) joined #haskell 00:54:00 --- join: JohnMeacham (n=JohnMeac@adsl-69-231-206-149.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net) joined #haskell 00:55:13 --- join: Cheer1 (n=Cheery@a81-197-19-23.elisa-laajakaista.fi) joined #haskell 00:55:51 --- quit: Cheery (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 00:59:47 --- join: mnislaih (n=pepe@25.Red-88-2-154.staticIP.rima-tde.net) joined #haskell 01:01:07 --- quit: Evi1M4chine ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org") 01:01:21 --- join: Evi1M4chine (n=Miranda@dsl50-223.pool.bitel.net) joined #haskell 01:01:40 --- quit: Evi1M4chine (Client Quit) 01:01:49 --- join: Evi1M4chine (n=Miranda@dsl50-223.pool.bitel.net) joined #haskell 01:02:01 --- quit: Evi1M4chine (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 01:02:11 --- join: Evi1M4chine (n=Miranda@dsl50-223.pool.bitel.net) joined #haskell 01:02:20 --- quit: Evi1M4chine (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 01:02:28 --- join: Evi1M4chine (n=Miranda@dsl50-223.pool.bitel.net) joined #haskell 01:03:14 --- quit: Evi1M4chine (Client Quit) 01:03:21 --- join: Evi1M4chine (n=Miranda@dsl50-223.pool.bitel.net) joined #haskell 01:03:30 --- quit: Evi1M4chine (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 01:03:41 --- join: Evi1M4chine (n=Miranda@dsl50-223.pool.bitel.net) joined #haskell 01:03:51 --- quit: Evi1M4chine (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 01:03:58 --- join: Evi1M4chine (n=Miranda@dsl50-223.pool.bitel.net) joined #haskell 01:05:27 --- quit: Evi1M4chine (Client Quit) 01:05:34 --- join: Evi1M4chine (n=Miranda@dsl50-223.pool.bitel.net) joined #haskell 01:06:50 --- join: nothingmuch (n=nothingm@bzq-84-108-53-74.cablep.bezeqint.net) joined #haskell 01:08:47 --- quit: johnnowak ("Lost terminal") 01:12:39 --- join: ivant (n=ivan@navi.dorms.spbu.ru) joined #haskell 01:13:02 --- join: takuan (i=rtega@ip-213-49-149-171.dsl.scarlet.be) joined #haskell 01:13:41 --- join: boliver (n=bruno@clpc80.comlab.ox.ac.uk) joined #haskell 01:15:25 --- join: JaffaCake (n=simonmar@tide73.microsoft.com) joined #haskell 01:18:33 Morning JaffaCake 01:18:41 hi there 01:18:58 lovely day for hacking GHC :) 01:19:06 hi JaffaCake 01:19:07 JaffaCake: Do xchg and friends in SMP.h need to be defined for all arches now, including unregisterised? 01:19:34 I've just been thinking about this 01:19:49 we'll probably need to be selective about which arches we support SMP on 01:20:23 currently SMP works properly on arches with full memory ordering guarantees, but AFAIK that only includes x86 and x86_64 01:20:41 Does SMP mean -threaded, or is it something else? 01:20:51 to support weaker memory ordering we need to implement a workaround in the update code 01:21:06 SMP means -threaded with +RTS -N2 or greater 01:21:17 Ah, OK 01:21:49 so with +RTS -N1, it would be safe to use a non-atomic xchg() and cas() in SMP.h 01:23:46 would you like to sort this out? we need to keep a list of arches that support SMP, the best place is probably in config.mk.in where we set GhcWithInterpreter and GhcWithNativeCodeGen 01:24:02 and then disable +RTS -N2 and greater if the arch doesn't support SMP 01:24:28 then we can provide fallback impls of cas() and xchg() for non-SMP-supporting builds 01:24:34 --- nick: Cheer1 -> Cheery 01:24:48 --- join: BCoppens (n=bartcopp@kde/developer/coppens) joined #haskell 01:25:20 also the threaded2 way in the testsuite should only be enabled for SMP archs 01:26:06 OK 01:28:45 JaffaCake, care to define what "full memory ordering" is? 01:30:03 pejo: from the application's perspective, all reads and writes appear to take place in the order they occur in the instruction steam, including reads and writes performed by other CPUs 01:36:03 --- join: Itkovian (n=Itkovian@dragnipur.elis.UGent.be) joined #haskell 01:37:44 JaffaCake, are there data dependencies all over the place, or would a memory barrier in a couple of places do? 01:38:11 pejo: memory barriers tend to be expensive, we want to avoid them if possible 01:38:31 but yes, memory barriers are one workaround 01:39:08 pejo: see http://www.haskell.org/~simonmar/papers/multiproc.pdf 01:39:50 Doh, should have realized and rtfa before commenting. 01:40:15 --- quit: SSelva (Connection timed out) 01:40:31 no problem :) 01:47:51 --- join: cptchaos (n=cptchaos@d193188.adsl.hansenet.de) joined #haskell 01:48:01 --- quit: cptchaos (Client Quit) 01:49:31 --- join: ProfTeggy (n=grust@mackemper1.informatik.tu-muenchen.de) joined #haskell 01:51:42 --- join: boegel (n=boegel@konijn.elis.UGent.be) joined #haskell 01:52:29 --- quit: roconnor (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 01:55:09 --- quit: Khisanth (Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)) 01:55:21 --- join: Khisanth (n=Khisanth@pool-71-247-74-23.nycmny.east.verizon.net) joined #haskell 01:56:05 --- quit: Evi1M4chine ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org") 01:56:18 --- join: Evi1M4chine (n=Miranda@dsl50-223.pool.bitel.net) joined #haskell 01:56:48 --- quit: takuan ("leaving") 01:57:12 --- join: takuan (i=rtega@ip-213-49-149-171.dsl.scarlet.be) joined #haskell 01:57:56 --- quit: Evi1M4chine (Client Quit) 01:58:03 --- join: Evi1M4chine (n=Miranda@dsl50-223.pool.bitel.net) joined #haskell 02:01:59 * dons is reminded how much cvs sucks 02:02:50 as much as 1000 industrial-grade vacuum cleaners? 02:03:59 --- join: chris2 (n=chris@p549D4273.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #haskell 02:04:02 black hole? 02:04:30 10000 Russian prostitutes? 02:05:27 --- join: arjanb (i=borganis@borganism.student.utwente.nl) joined #haskell 02:06:14 I could imagine russian prostitutes are comparably uncomplicated... 02:07:14 --- join: cheesy (n=cheesy@ckies.dialup.fu-berlin.de) joined #haskell 02:07:23 depends ulfdoz 02:12:21 ?userrs 02:12:22 Maximum users seen in #haskell: 235, currently: 200 (85.1%) 02:14:28 --- quit: Evi1M4chine ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org") 02:14:34 --- join: Evi1M4chine (n=Miranda@dsl50-223.pool.bitel.net) joined #haskell 02:14:44 --- quit: Evi1M4chine (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 02:14:53 --- join: Evi1M4chine (n=Miranda@dsl50-223.pool.bitel.net) joined #haskell 02:15:01 --- quit: Evi1M4chine (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 02:15:07 --- join: Evi1M4chine (n=Miranda@dsl50-223.pool.bitel.net) joined #haskell 02:15:25 --- topic: set to '' by ProfTeggy 02:15:34 woops 02:15:42 Sorry :-/ 02:16:14 --- topic: set to '["Haskell Communities & Activities Report, 10th edition", "http://haskell.org/communities/", "Haskell.org SoC projects", "http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/summer-of-code/", "Haskell is still the language of choice for discriminating hackers", "logs:", "http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/haskell/", "http://www.haskell.org/learning.html", "We put the Funk in Funktion", "The ICFP has ended. Who won?"]' by wolverian 02:16:29 Thanks... 02:16:30 --- join: cheesy34 (n=cheesy@ckies.dialup.fu-berlin.de) joined #haskell 02:16:34 --- quit: cheesy (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 02:17:12 no problem 02:17:29 --- join: nilsi (n=anonym@A408a.WH8.tu-dresden.de) joined #haskell 02:17:56 Hi there 02:19:23 what about <> for function composition? in my font f<>g looks good 02:20:14 --- quit: Plareplane ("Ex-Chat") 02:20:30 --- quit: Evi1M4chine (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 02:20:37 --- join: Evi1M4chine (n=Miranda@dsl50-223.pool.bitel.net) joined #haskell 02:21:56 --- join: merus (n=merus@cpe-69-133-56-231.cinci.res.rr.com) joined #haskell 02:21:59 @botsnack 02:22:00 :) 02:22:16 --- join: sidd178 (n=siddhart@59.163.68.58) joined #haskell 02:23:06 --- quit: Lemmih (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 02:24:29 --- quit: Evi1M4chine (Client Quit) 02:24:36 --- join: Evi1M4chine (n=Miranda@dsl50-223.pool.bitel.net) joined #haskell 02:25:57 --- quit: Evi1M4chine (Client Quit) 02:26:03 --- join: Evi1M4chine (n=Miranda@dsl50-223.pool.bitel.net) joined #haskell 02:27:12 f <> g <> h $ 123 02:27:38 --- part: sidd178 left #haskell 02:31:15 --- quit: iblechbot (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 02:33:34 --- join: pina (n=apin@unaffiliated/pina) joined #haskell 02:33:41 --- part: pina left #haskell 02:34:03 * benja_ prefers & currently 02:34:29 f & g & h $ 123 02:35:17 but my one is like a circle somehow :-) 02:35:26 --- join: roconnor (n=roconnor@n138230.science.ru.nl) joined #haskell 02:35:42 --- quit: Evi1M4chine (Client Quit) 02:35:43 yeah but it's harder to type and it's also like 'not equal' somehow :) 02:35:56 --- quit: jrmole ("Leaving") 02:35:57 --- join: Evi1M4chine (n=Miranda@dsl50-223.pool.bitel.net) joined #haskell 02:36:07 --- quit: Evi1M4chine (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 02:36:15 --- join: Evi1M4chine (n=Miranda@dsl50-223.pool.bitel.net) joined #haskell 02:36:22 --- quit: Evi1M4chine (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 02:36:24 --- join: koffein__ (n=aik@p50921818.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #haskell 02:36:29 --- join: Evi1M4chine (n=Miranda@dsl50-223.pool.bitel.net) joined #haskell 02:36:41 --- quit: Evi1M4chine (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 02:36:48 --- join: Evi1M4chine (n=Miranda@dsl50-223.pool.bitel.net) joined #haskell 02:36:56 actually, I wonder. I might even like `o`. 02:37:46 and you complain about typeability of <> ? :) 02:38:17 =) 02:38:29 nilsi: no, lambdabot does: 02:38:33 > concat . map 02:38:34 Expecting a function type, but found `b' 02:38:34 Expected type: (a1 -> b) ... 02:38:49 see =) 02:39:33 > concat . (map (+1)) 02:39:34 add an instance declaration for (Num [a]) 02:39:48 aha 02:39:56 > concat . (map (++)) 02:39:57 Expecting a function type, but found `b' 02:39:57 Expected type: [a1] -> [a... 02:40:05 > concat . (map (++" ")) 02:40:06 <[[Char]] -> [Char]> 02:40:11 aha! 02:40:31 --- quit: integral (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 02:40:33 nilsi: on the other hand, `o` doesn't need shift 02:40:34 --- quit: Evi1M4chine (Client Quit) 02:40:41 --- join: Evi1M4chine (n=Miranda@dsl50-223.pool.bitel.net) joined #haskell 02:40:59 not on an us keyboard, perhaps 02:41:19 nilsi: not on a finnish keyboard either, as long as you use us layout =-] 02:41:53 designing for typability on non-us keyboards is fighting a lost fight imho :-( 02:43:03 * benja_ uses the windows key as a mode key to switch to an international keyboard layout 02:43:56 i clearly think we should prefer readability over us-typability (being german using an us keyboard that is) 02:43:59 --- quit: koffein_ (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 02:44:01 --- join: integral (i=bsmith@p3m/member/integral) joined #haskell 02:44:31 so use `o` then =) 02:45:38 i do not find `o` readable, unfortunately, let's keep f.g 02:45:46 =-) 02:46:17 the problem, of course, is that it's so subjective 02:46:31 that's why the haskell committe had its syntax czar :) 02:46:32 in R (statistical package) the record syntax is adress$name and i got used to it astonishingly fast 02:47:06 i like having a syntax czar, as long as I am the one :) 02:47:12 :) 02:47:48 who needs semantics, if you can have syntax instead 02:48:19 just use the ring operator :) 02:49:00 there's always !@#$%^& when you get tired of having this discussion. :) 02:50:34 the ring operator is *great* for readability. whenever by chance your system gets the encoding right and has the right font. 02:51:11 --- join: Lemmih (n=david@kbhn-vbrg-sr0-vl206-099.perspektivbredband.net) joined #haskell 02:51:32 how about `u_2218` 02:52:12 --- join: drrho (n=rho@60.226.186.11) joined #haskell 02:52:25 --- quit: ivant (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 02:52:43 encoding and font problems will disappear 02:52:50 eventuall 02:52:51 y 02:53:07 ok, let's use the ring operator then 02:53:09 eventually 02:53:14 ;) 02:53:27 let's have another discussion: is optimistic evaluation compatible with jhc's RTS ? IMHO Haskell needs a compiler that makes unoptimized code fast, not "comonadic-dependant-algebraic-types" one phd is not enough to understand 02:53:59 encoding problems will disappear in 50 years or later I think 02:54:02 --- join: kfish (n=conrad@195.8.233.220.exetel.com.au) joined #haskell 02:54:57 --- quit: Evi1M4chine (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 02:54:58 wp doesn't know what optimistic evaluation is :-/ 02:55:14 wp? 02:55:30 wikipedia 02:55:49 --- join: Evi1M4chine (n=Miranda@dsl50-223.pool.bitel.net) joined #haskell 02:57:16 basically it is something like speculative evaluation of lazy computations, using a runtime profiler to prevent programs that actually need laziness from becoming to slow 02:58:19 http://www.cambridge.intel-research.net/~rennals/talk_opt.pdf 02:59:17 for me it is the only option to get haskell into mainstream 03:00:08 --- quit: Evi1M4chine (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 03:00:16 i'm not sure i want haskell into mainstream 03:00:19 you think haskell's *not* doomed to succeed? :) 03:00:20 --- join: Evi1M4chine (n=Miranda@dsl50-223.pool.bitel.net) joined #haskell 03:00:54 sidestream is slower and more comfortable 03:01:30 no, it is just not bad enough for mainstream yet - so propose additions 03:01:53 we NEED introspection 03:02:05 and multi-class inheritance 03:02:20 and macros. MACROS"! 03:02:54 and casting 03:02:55 we need JOBS! 03:03:10 dons: I don't think we can get him 03:03:26 Heh 03:03:31 he 03:03:36 hehe 03:04:26 what about imperative features? this darned functional style -.- 03:04:30 oh wait 03:04:34 we need a uniform syntax such as parentesized prefix notation... er ... 03:04:39 I thought haskell macros go by the name "template haskell" 03:05:36 we should forbid a function to call itself 03:05:49 ha! 03:05:56 is this haskell-2.x discussion? 03:05:56 yeah, recursion causes bubbles in your brain -.- 03:06:03 mope 03:06:09 its haskell 2015 03:06:15 nilsi: that'll make it mainstream *and* ensure termination for all programs! 03:06:19 --- join: Plareplane (n=plarepla@142-165-43-211.sktn.hsdb.sasknet.sk.ca) joined #haskell 03:06:22 theory *and* practice! 03:06:28 and the damned garbage collector slows everything down ... just use new and delete! 03:06:38 profmakx: ahh, good. i though i'd have to re-learn many things 03:06:45 --- quit: Plareplane (Remote closed the connection) 03:06:47 itself 03:06:47 13:04 < benja_> ha! 03:06:47 13:04 < gour> is this haskell-2.x discussion? 03:06:52 argh 03:07:00 I should stop playing with the mouse pad 03:07:24 hmmmm, where are you 03:07:26 eastern europe? 03:07:39 i need global variables... i�m just reviewing code which is full of them 03:07:40 finland? 03:07:45 we need a better industrial name like Jaskell 2 Starwars Edition 03:07:46 norpan: i'm from croatia 03:07:51 hey, nice 03:08:12 and then there is the matter of lack of segfaults. A LANGUAGE CANNOT SURVIVE WITHOUT SEGFAULTS! THE SAFETY PEOPLE HAVE CORRUPTED OUR PRECIOUS BODILY FLUIDS!!!!!!!!!! 03:08:38 ibid: you can get segfaults with foreign import 03:08:44 owah, put the brakes on the negativity express 03:09:05 we need haskell IDE 03:09:16 psnl, i am really depressed by this code im reviewing right now 03:09:18 the "unsafe" word is the problem, change it to "useful" usefullPerformIO 03:09:19 gour: thats a good suggestion 03:09:36 norpan: and do you expect a five-day wonder to learn foreign import 03:09:47 ? 03:09:50 DO YOU? 03:09:51 profmakx: I know what you mean 03:09:51 :) 03:09:54 just send SEGV to your Haskell program. Problem solved. 03:10:01 you can teach them to import Segfault and use Segfault.segfault 03:10:06 psnl: hIDE needs some help (from experienced guys) 03:10:08 SIGKILL me now 03:10:27 --- join: Plareplane (n=plarepla@142-165-43-211.sktn.hsdb.sasknet.sk.ca) joined #haskell 03:10:45 is there a inline assembler yet? 03:10:48 hm. we need a SIGHASKELL 03:10:52 Haskell only supports monadic segfaults 03:10:58 (not kidding this time) 03:11:26 --- quit: Plareplane (Client Quit) 03:11:26 gour: I'll take a look when I have time 03:11:33 benja_: damn, i need ternary segfaults. are you saying haskell cannot deliver? 03:11:43 --- quit: ths (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 03:11:51 although there's discussion about using arrows to pinpoint blame for segfaults in haskell' 03:12:09 we need gdb support for haskell 03:12:15 psnl: thanks. i'd also like to join after i learn something more. still didn't finish that craft of fp book :-( many distractions on the road 03:12:19 ibid: there's usefulPerformIO segfault 03:12:30 benja_: that's ternary? 03:12:32 unsafePerformSegfault 03:12:35 norpan: Seen mnislaih code? 03:12:37 norpan: what about debugger for ghci from gsoc project? 03:12:53 no need to wonder why mainstream ignores us *sigh* 03:12:56 ibid: no unary, but you can use currying 03:13:03 hm 03:13:27 Lemmih, gour: no 03:13:29 @where Ghci.Debugger 03:13:29 http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Ghci/Debugger 03:13:31 --- quit: Evi1M4chine (Client Quit) 03:13:41 --- join: Evi1M4chine (n=Miranda@dsl50-223.pool.bitel.net) joined #haskell 03:13:51 why do we have only unsafePerformIO? i want safelyPerformIO that does what i want even if i say it wrnog! 03:14:05 ^ hm, someone from Bielefeld 03:14:31 wrong too 03:14:46 ibid: We already have safelyPerformIO; it's called 'id'. 03:15:14 ah the name is to short 03:15:23 --- quit: xinming (Connection timed out) 03:15:28 it is overlooked 03:15:36 sieni: it doesn't typecheck 03:15:53 ibid: that's what makes it safe 03:15:57 --- join: Beelsebob|Mini (n=Beelsebo@minibob.quixotic.org.uk) joined #haskell 03:16:16 * gour downloads the video 03:16:28 mnislaih: did you use some video editor? 03:16:31 can you switch off the typechecker to improve compiling? :) 03:16:37 benja_: i wonder i just almost started writing "we want information, information, information... you won't get it!" 03:16:56 +why 03:16:56 --- quit: drrho ("using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.3.11") 03:17:22 (by hook or by crook we will) 03:17:35 well. time for me to start reading this thesis here... 03:17:43 --- join: jak (n=john@194.201.144.25) joined #haskell 03:17:51 you still haven't? :-o 03:17:55 energize! :) 03:18:45 :) 03:18:55 --- join: ShereKahn (n=ajourez@14.201-200-80.adsl.skynet.be) joined #haskell 03:21:06 --- quit: Evi1M4chine (Client Quit) 03:21:12 --- join: Evi1M4chine (n=Miranda@dsl50-223.pool.bitel.net) joined #haskell 03:22:22 --- join: ths (n=ths@mipsfw.mips-uk.com) joined #haskell 03:24:51 --- part: cheesy34 left #haskell 03:28:50 --- part: Evi1M4chine left #haskell 03:29:29 --- join: Evi1M4chine (n=Miranda@dsl50-223.pool.bitel.net) joined #haskell 03:29:54 --- quit: Evi1M4chine (Client Quit) 03:32:26 I like this paper: http://delivery.acm.org/10.1145/1120000/1111563/p121-luca.pdf?key1=1111563&key2=0452426511&coll=&dl=ACM&CFID=15151515&CFTOKEN=6184618 03:32:52 Title: Program Transformation by Solving Recurrences 03:33:07 --- quit: vegai (Read error: 148 (No route to host)) 03:39:29 --- quit: ramkrsna (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 03:41:35 --- quit: Beelsebob|Mini () 03:42:11 --- join: Beelsebob|Mini (n=Beelsebo@minibob.quixotic.org.uk) joined #haskell 03:42:21 --- join: Stinger_ (i=stinger@122-49-166-50.ip.adam.com.au) joined #haskell 03:42:51 --- join: Evi1M4chine (n=Miranda@dsl50-223.pool.bitel.net) joined #haskell 03:43:05 --- join: ramkrsna (n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna) joined #haskell 03:45:39 --- quit: Evi1M4chine (Client Quit) 03:48:14 --- join: christo_ (n=christo@d58-105-158-83.dsl.nsw.optusnet.com.au) joined #haskell 03:48:28 --- part: christo_ left #haskell 03:48:30 --- quit: roconnor (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 03:53:10 --- quit: genneth (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 03:56:06 --- quit: boegel (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 03:57:48 --- quit: takuan (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 03:59:17 --- join: johnnowak (n=johnnowa@207-38-204-65.c3-0.wsd-ubr2.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com) joined #haskell 03:59:56 --- join: takuan (i=rtega@ip-213-49-149-171.dsl.scarlet.be) joined #haskell 04:01:33 --- join: Jaak (n=Jaak@194.126.113.161) joined #haskell 04:04:46 anyone know where you get unregistered .hc files for ghc? 04:06:53 the gghdrms (the glorious glasgow haskell digital restrictions management system) prevents you from using unregistered .hc files 04:06:59 (just kidding) 04:08:31 oh, other meaning of unregistered 04:10:03 --- quit: johnnowak ("Lost terminal") 04:10:08 --- join: johnnowak (n=johnnowa@207-38-204-65.c3-0.wsd-ubr2.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com) joined #haskell 04:11:03 psnl: unregister*is*ed 04:11:07 psnl: What are you trying to do? 04:11:35 --- quit: _frederi1_ (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 04:11:54 Igloo: build ghc on an sprace box running openbsd 04:12:11 sparc, even 04:12:52 You need to follow http://www.haskell.org/ghc/docs/latest/html/building/sec-porting-ghc.html#unregisterised-porting then 04:12:53 Title: 10. Porting GHC 04:13:36 Igloo: are you suggesting cross compiling? 04:14:21 It's not exactly cross-compiling. You generate .hc files on a machine with ghc, copy them to the sparc/openbsd machine and compile them there 04:14:38 ok, cool 04:15:26 psnl: Oh, and where it says "make boot UseStage1=YES", you need to do "make boot UseStage1=YES EXTRA_HC_OPTS='-O -fvia-C -keep-hc-files'" 04:15:29 --- quit: Itkovian () 04:16:47 --- join: Itkovian (n=Itkovian@dragnipur.elis.UGent.be) joined #haskell 04:23:15 Igloo: just saw the announcement. congrats! :) 04:25:22 thanks :-) 04:25:51 JohnMeacham: would it make sense to have a frisby-bytestring port? 04:27:08 --- join: Plareplane (n=plarepla@142-165-43-211.sktn.hsdb.sasknet.sk.ca) joined #haskell 04:28:15 audreyt: well, lazyness is one of its selling points. but PEGs are so expressive, I can't imagine not wanting to use them always, they subsume pretty much everything else. :) I would like more feedback on the API and algorithms before I commit to an interface, but it will probably look more or less like it does now. 04:30:00 well, there's ByteString.Lazy 04:30:13 audreyt: I sort of want to try extending yi with a syntax highlighter based on it, because it wouldn't just know syntax, it would be able to do a full parse, and fast, and PEGs are very good at dealing with errors and recovering gracefully, so you could highlight just the parse errors in red or something. 04:30:27 --- quit: kpreid () 04:30:27 yeah. I've written a wiki parser in packrat 04:30:46 using 'pappy'? 04:30:49 yup 04:30:50 --- quit: ShereKahn ("Leaving") 04:30:53 cool. 04:30:54 actually no, its monadic equiv 04:30:57 --- join: kpreid (n=kpreid@24-52-49-37.bflony.adelphia.net) joined #haskell 04:31:32 at that time I remember I've pined for a commit" primitive 04:31:43 that blocks its rhs // from backtracking 04:31:52 I understand there's no speed penalty for backtracking 04:31:59 but sometimes I'd like it not to 04:32:56 --- join: roconnor (n=roconnor@n138230.science.ru.nl) joined #haskell 04:41:25 --- join: der_eq (n=eq@dslc-082-082-091-015.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #haskell 04:44:13 --- join: iblechbot (n=iblechbo@62.216.200.179) joined #haskell 04:50:10 audreyt: ? it never backtracks, just do a &foo to test whatever you want, then go for it. 04:51:17 I guess it depends on how you look at it in a sense, but looking into the future is different in that it can skip over stuff, and there are multiple potential futures. 04:51:41 or you can do // return 'x' to have it stop and return x. 04:51:56 or // unit 'x' in frisby actually. 04:55:30 like, expressions can end in // unit 'invalid expression' to make expressions always parse, embedding error messages within the syntax tree. 04:58:39 --- quit: therp (Remote closed the connection) 04:58:47 --- join: nothingmuch_ (n=nothingm@bzq-84-108-53-74.cablep.bezeqint.net) joined #haskell 04:58:47 --- quit: nothingmuch (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 05:01:22 --- join: therp (n=nil@chello080108077214.34.11.tuwien.teleweb.at) joined #haskell 05:04:18 --- join: boegel (n=boegel@vpna183.ugent.be) joined #haskell 05:08:29 @karma+ dcoutts 05:08:30 dcoutts's karma raised to 19. 05:08:54 Gtk2Hs is fun to use! 05:09:19 @karma kolmodin 05:09:19 You have a karma of 0 05:09:22 argh! 05:09:23 :) 05:09:30 --- quit: nilsi ("Dana") 05:09:42 @karma+ kolpudding 05:09:43 kolpudding's karma raised to 1. 05:09:48 hah :) 05:09:51 ops, miss 05:10:21 --- join: vegai (n=vegai@chat.ravissant.net) joined #haskell 05:10:54 * gour sees kolmodin is liberated - no karma 05:21:23 JohnMeacham: sorry. I mean possesitve quantifiers 05:21:27 like \d++ in regex 05:21:39 i.e. a "many1" that does not give anything back 05:21:53 equiv to the parsec "many1" 05:22:10 such that /\d++\d/ never matches 05:22:44 how would you write such a many1 in frisby? 05:22:57 notFollowedBy or somesuch? 05:23:27 audreyt: what regex system does "++"? 05:23:34 kpreid: pcre, among other places 05:23:36 perl5 too 05:23:39 huh 05:23:49 never seen it before 05:23:52 in perl5 it's called (?>\d+) 05:23:56 but essentially same thing 05:24:02 er...then that's not the same thing 05:24:12 how is it not? 05:24:21 it's the same underlying semantics, that is. 05:24:24 --- quit: therp ("Leaving") 05:24:26 sorry, clarification: I was asking about the particular syntax, not the behavior 05:24:38 oh ok. sorry. then yes, pcre-based ones. 05:25:29 musasabi: many1 x `notFollowedby` x ? 05:25:54 something like that, if I understand correctly what you want. 05:26:10 in frisby I guess it's spelled peek . doesNotMatch 05:26:18 but yeah. hm. 05:26:51 the analogy fails on \d{2,3}+ though 05:27:18 psnl, there should already be binaries for ghc on sparc/openbsd 05:27:21 at least for ghc 6.2.2 05:27:25 though that can be decomposed into two subparsers 05:27:33 and there's already some .hc files for you 05:27:45 --- quit: boegel ("This computer has gone to sleep") 05:28:38 psnl: ah , here, .hc files for 6.2.1, ftp://ftp.cse.unsw.edu.au/pub/users/dons/ghc/6.2.1/ 05:29:03 JohnMeacham: state. the reason I used packret's monads is that it allows userdefined state 05:29:04 --- join: boegel (n=boegel@konijn.elis.UGent.be) joined #haskell 05:29:15 that threads through the parse 05:29:30 I understand each "modify" will duplicate the linear cache space 05:29:52 but is it possible for P to carry userState in addition to the existential s? 05:31:55 --- quit: Jaak ("bbl") 05:33:06 --- join: sslow (n=siganos@195.251.96.24) joined #haskell 05:40:41 mmm! 'Formalising a High-Performance Microkernel written in Haskell, using Isabelle/HOL' 05:40:54 yay performance 05:41:01 dons: ooh 05:41:59 psnl: yeah , ghc/sparc was working on openbsd till recently. if you check the package archives, you might find a binary (otherwise building from .hc should be possible) 05:42:13 dons: thanks 05:43:53 --- join: tennin (n=max@ppp-68-95-68-204.dialup.stlsmo.swbell.net) joined #haskell 05:45:11 --- join: sad0ur (n=sad0ur@rb1a240.net.upc.cz) joined #haskell 05:46:20 ?where house 05:46:21 http://www.cse.ogi.edu/~hallgren/House/ 05:47:58 --- join: scsibug__ (n=scsibug@ppp-70-254-171-254.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #haskell 05:48:39 oh wow, house is under development! 05:48:42 --- quit: scsibug_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 05:50:24 some papers, http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Research_papers/Program_development#Operating_Systems 05:50:26 Title: Research papers/Program development - HaskellWiki 05:50:39 cool :) 05:53:47 "Composing the User Interface with Haggis" gives me very strange mental images 05:54:15 :-) 05:54:25 heh 05:59:37 "no no click the sheep guts" 06:01:33 --- join: tenni1 (n=max@ppp-68-95-68-221.dialup.stlsmo.swbell.net) joined #haskell 06:04:40 "no, no click the yowe intimmers" 06:06:28 yum, haggis 06:06:30 bah, ghostview is being a pain 06:07:05 I'd actually like to try haggis (and I'd also like to read this paper...) but real haggis is illegal here. 06:08:15 here? 06:08:27 the US 06:08:38 is that reasonable? 06:08:53 what is haggis? 06:08:57 It's a public health thing about not eating lungs of certain animals 06:09:02 ?google haggis severe illness 06:09:05 http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/bid-bmi/dsd-dsm/nb-ab/2003/nb0603_e.html 06:09:19 that sounds reasonable, then 06:09:41 SamB: the scottish national dish 06:09:50 so no sweetmeats in general? 06:09:59 is it illegal to buy or illegal to make? 06:10:15 Do you have a link to that 16 cpu mips station sold at 3k$ ? 06:10:26 SamB: its normally made from all the bits left over after taking the good stuff from a sheep 06:10:26 To sell, I think. 06:10:27 its illegal to produce a device that circumvents the haggis protection mechanisms 06:10:46 dons: you are confused with copyright, I think 06:10:52 dons++ -- haggis drm 06:11:08 @karma+ dons -- haggis drm 06:11:08 dons's karma raised to 52. 06:11:12 heh 06:12:18 whee, this semester is going to be fun. Biking to class every day. 06:12:47 well, tuesday and thursday. But that's an aproximation of every day 06:12:59 heh 06:13:05 xerox, http://www.movidis.com/products/rev.asp 06:13:07 Title: Movidis 06:13:29 dcoutts: thanks 06:14:32 --- join: Jaak (n=Jaak@194.126.113.161) joined #haskell 06:16:42 --- nick: mathrick -> mathrick|away 06:16:55 --- quit: tennin (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 06:18:44 --- quit: dgoldsmith () 06:19:17 --- quit: iblechbot (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 06:20:58 --- quit: johnnowak ("leaving") 06:23:22 --- quit: xerox () 06:25:08 --- quit: kfish ("zzzzz") 06:31:04 --- quit: jgrimes (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 06:34:07 --- join: jgrimes (n=jgrimes@Lee-10-101.rh.ncsu.edu) joined #haskell 06:34:18 --- quit: jewel (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 06:35:09 --- quit: dolio (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 06:38:08 Gtk2Hs UTF-8 question: I have a string, "\209\135\209\130\208\190", which shows like что with putStr, but which shows like ÑÑÐ¾ in the textView. 06:38:58 --- join: dolio (n=dolio@nr10-216-68-188-34.fuse.net) joined #haskell 06:39:44 Do I somehow have to parse the string into unicode? Those escaped numbers in the string are byte values, right? 06:40:11 --- join: ookk (n=ookk@81-226-212-4-no29.tbcn.telia.com) joined #haskell 06:40:12 Oejet, you've double encoded the string 06:40:39 or rather you've started with it encoded as UTF8 but in a String 06:40:47 where as String is already unicode 06:41:04 so when Gtk2Hs turns the String into UTF8, your thing gets double encoded 06:41:26 the trick is to start with a normally unicode string 06:41:41 so if you're reading from a file then decode from utf8 06:41:50 what is the benefit of having monads and syntax-suger to make it look like imperative operations instead of just adding imperative features to the language? 06:42:01 I have parsed the string from a text file. 06:42:22 Oejet, then you'll need to decode the UTF8 into a normal Haskell unicode String 06:42:39 Hm, so I need a library? 06:42:51 or pinch the code from somehwere 06:43:06 does this help? http://repetae.net/john/recent/out/HsLocale.html (i'm planning to use it for wxhaskell) 06:43:07 there's plenty of UTF8 encoder/decoders about 06:43:07 Title: HsLocale 06:43:19 I guess there are no plans to make haddock support .lhs directly? 06:43:19 kzm: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 06:43:36 kzm, wouldn't you just unlit it first? 06:43:44 --- join: nilsi (n=anonym@A408a.WH8.tu-dresden.de) joined #haskell 06:43:45 Oejet, sadly there's not UTF8 enc/dec stuff in the standard libs yet, bu you can easily get the code elsewhere 06:44:00 @seen nilsi 06:44:00 You are in #haskell. I last heard you speak just now. 06:44:04 just have to hunt for the haskell warz 06:44:14 warez.. 06:44:18 I guess I'm not completely clear on how to invoke haddock from a Makefile. Should I explicitly unlit .lhs to create .hs? 06:44:46 Currently, I just do: haddock -h `find src -name \*.hs` -o docs 06:44:56 Perhaps I should be more refined? 06:45:18 kowey: Was that for me? bytesToString looks somewhat related to my problem. :-) 06:45:30 Oejet: yes 06:45:43 kowey: Thank you. 06:45:59 :-) 06:48:51 kowey: That looks a bit like overkill, I'm afraid. And also: 06:49:39 ]$ make 06:49:39 hsc2hs -C "" -o CWString.hs CWString.hsc 06:49:39