The University of New South Wales

Minutes of Meeting



A meeting of the meeting (CSE Teaching Committee 17/1) of the Computer Science and Engineering Teaching Committee
was held at 12:00pm on Friday, 31 March 2017, in Room 103 (HoS Meeting Room), Computer Science Building.

Enquiries concerning these minutes should be directed to John Shepherd, extension +61293856494, jas@cse.unsw.edu.au.

John Shepherd
Committee Chair

Present: John Shepherd (chair), Maurice Pagnucco (HoS), Andrew Bennett, Alan Blair, Kevin Elphinstone, Bruno Gaeta, Annie Guo, Brad Heap, Wen Hu, Jashank Jeremy, Fethi Rabhi, Wayne Wobcke
Apologies: None
Absent: None
  Present / Quorum:   7 / 6   (quorum reached)

  1. Apologies and Welcome


  2. Reports from Bodies outside CSE

    John Shepherd noted that the BINF course revisions had been passed at the last meeting have occurred in committees, work-groups, etc. at UNSW.


  3. New Courses and Pre-requisites

    Several course pre-reqs were discussed:

    • BINF3111 ... BG: could use COMP1531 or COMP2041 or COMP9021
    • COMP3211 ... HG: had COMP3111 as a pre-req ... should be COMP3222
    • COMP3222 ... HG: should it have ((ELEC111 or ELEC1112) and COMP1511) or COMP2121
    • COMP3161 ... WWW: had COMP2911 ... should have COMP2511, not COMP2521
    • COMP4920 ... JAS: pre-req "final year of program" difficult to express in SiMS ... WW: put COMP2511 as a pre-req (for Agile) ... WW: maybe SENG students could take it in their 3rd year

    Pre-reqs for equivalent courses (e.g. COMP1927 or COMP2521) cannot be automatically handled just because the courses are flagged as equivalent in AIMS.


  4. Course Rationalisation

    MP: Engineering is looking at efficiencies in running courses e.g. are there courses in different schools with common content that could be taught together?) CSE is looking at commonalities with EET in hardware and networking. Need to devise how we might "merge" such courses, once the LiCs have met and determined level of commonality. Incentives to do this via PhD and PostDoc stipends depending on the number of courses that are merged.

    AB: are there overlaps between COMP1521 and early EET courses?

    WH: are there overlaps with the Data Science and Decisions? Not really; the courses are spread across Maths, CSE and ASB, and have determined .

    WH: are there overlaps with SISTM? Not really; the courses have quite different foci and SISTM students in the past reported problems in dealing with the technical aspects of CSE courses (e.g. COMP1917 and even COMP1400).

    WW: with mergers, need to ensure that courses are both at the same level.

    MP: noted mis-matches with CSE students taking Project Management taught by SISTM and not liking it despite the LiC getting excellent ratings in ASB.

    BG: in discussion with BABS about rationalising material across courses.


  5. New Assessment Policy

    Points of contention:

    • 2 hour exams ... could we have 2 * 2-hour exams if we want?
    • max 60% for any individual assessment item classes
    • max 30% group assessment ... problems for group-based courses

    BG: noted that Moodle has a peer assessment component for group work, to get individual assessment component up

    JAS: noted the "not centrally managed" clause on 2-hour exams, which could allow us to run longer exams if we invigilate them


  6. Course Revision: COMP2111 System Modelling and Design

    FR: Part of SENG program revision. SENG program moving from heavily prescribed to more "stream"-based. Current core: new CSE core, plus workshops, plus COMP2041, and then electives. Action item for COMP2111: needed to be revised, to enhance formal methods component of the degree and to fit better with workshops. E.g. currently co-req with SENG2011; now made pre-req to ensure students have right formal background in SENG2011.

    COMP1531 set up to lead in to SENG2021. Using GitHub to manage projects in year 1. KE asked why GitHub vs GitLab vs BitBucket. FE: GitHub volunteered in an industry advisory meeting, have been given basic requirements, needs to be determined what they can provide. MP: ultimate goal is to replace Give by Git (or BitBucket). General agreement with this approach.

    AT: develop some resources for COMP1531 to help students familiarise themselves with source code management.

    AT: what happened to Python in COMP1531? FR: using JavaScript because wanted something simple (is it simple?) and not too many languages to deal with.

    FR: volunteers to help develop COMP1531 material?


  7. Course Revision: SENG2011 Workshop on Reasoning about Programs: from Specification to Implementation

    JS: title is too long.

    FR: concern about who can teach it.


  8. Course Revision: SENG2021 Requirements and Design Workshop

    No comments on this proposal.


  9. Four-year Computer Science Degree

    AB: reminded us of the problem with potential Hons students taking too many advanced courses before 4th-year and then not having enough advanced courses to satisfy their Hons requirements. This causes us to lose some very good CS students after 3rd year.

    KE: thinks students might be leaving after 3 years, not because of degree structure, but because of lucrative job offers.

    AndrewB: one problem is that UG students are required to take COMP3xxx versions of dual-baged courses; could we fix this problem by making them hybrid (COMP6xxx)?

    General concensus that we should not abandon the 3-year degree. Could we introduce a new 4-year Advanced Computer Science?

    Discussion on the value of staying for a full degree or taking a well-paid job.


  10. Support for Casual Lecturers

    JAS: More casual lecturers coming into School, not necessarily familiar with University rules, doing "non-standard" things.

    WW: CSE does not provide adequate technical or admin support for casuals e.g. University policies, responsibilities, access to resources (e.g. MyUNSW, MyCSE, ....), who-is-who in CSE, office, laptops, etc.

    JAS: there needs to be an "induction package"

    Casuals are paid for preparation, delivery, *some* extra hours to deal with student queries. What to do when admin (e.g. WDs) lingers on well beyond the end of the semester. Also, reduction in Student Office staff may lead to more demand for LiCs to have face-to-face time with students.


  11. For noting: BINF3111/4111 Revisions

    Noted.


  12. Any Other Business

    JAS: CSE will meet with UNSW3+ implementation staff soon to discuss how we might implement three 10-week terms. Many issues still to be resolved: scheduling of course offerings, Co-op placements, projects, theses, etc.

    BH: will we schedule courses to allow for many staff wanting to attend northern hemisphere conferences during (our) winter term?

    KE: could we run some offerings as Distance mode, to minimse increase in lecture requirements. BG: Stanford runs some courses live-then-video, then back to live.

    WW: do students actually look at lecture recordings? BH: video lectures are not a replacement for live (e.g. asking questions, noting level of understanding)

    JJ: some courses do 10min video, then quiz, then live, etc. Could be good, but set-up cost is expensive.

    AT: Small tutorial-style videos might be effective, and could save lecture time.

    JJ and AndrewB noted that StuRep survey is coming and asked for possible questions.


The meeting closed at 2:00pm.